Tickling Sharks & Changing Systems

In this episode of Circular Strategies, host Bob Alvarez welcomes the legendary John Elkington, often called the "Godfather of Sustainability" and the mind behind the Triple Bottom Line (People, Planet, Profit) framework. With decades of experience advising corporations, governments, and financial markets, John shares his bold insights on system change, the failure of incrementalism, and why circularity is currently going backward rather than forward. He reflects on the existential crisis facing democracies, the role of younger generations in shaping the future, and the corporate mindset shifts required to drive real sustainability. John also discusses the need for pragmatic, long-term policy commitments and how AI, systemic thinking, and cross-sector collaboration can help shape a more regenerative economic model. If you're looking for a thought-provoking conversation on the future of sustainability, business, and circular economies, this episode is a must-listen!

 

Key Takeaways :

1. Incremental Change Isn’t Enough—We Need System Change
   1. Many sustainability efforts today tinker around the edges rather than addressing core systemic issues.
   2. Businesses and policymakers must rethink financial structures, governance, and economic incentives to make real progress.
2. Circularity Is Moving Backward Instead of Forward
   1. Despite corporate commitments, the world is becoming less circular, with more waste and inefficient resource use.
   2. Policy failures, short-term economic priorities, and a lack of systemic coordination are to blame.
3. The Future Will Be Led by People We Haven’t Heard of Yet
   1. Historically, major societal shifts come from unknown leaders emerging during times of crisis.
   2. Today’s business and political leaders are often too entrenched in outdated models to drive real change.
4. AI & Technology Can Help, But Only with the Right Leadership
   1. AI could be a powerful tool for enhancing sustainability efforts, optimizing circular supply chains, and reducing waste.
   2. However, if used without systemic oversight, AI could also exacerbate inequalities and environmental problems.
5. The Role of Democracy in Sustainability Is at a Crossroads
   1. Younger generations are losing faith in democracy, which could lead to more authoritarian approaches.
   2. John controversially suggests that older generations should not have as much influence over the future if they are voting against sustainability progress.
6. Business Leaders Need More Curiosity, Generosity, and Optimism
   1. Curiosity: Leaders must look beyond their industries to see how transformation is happening.
   2. Generosity: Instead of competing at all costs, businesses must find ways to collaborate and share knowledge.
   3. Optimism: Despite setbacks, history shows that massive change is possible, and leaders must act with bold confidence.

 

Chapter Markers :

00:00 - Introduction | Bob Alvarez welcomes John Elkington.

02:00 - "Tickling Sharks" and Challenging Power | John explains his role in shaping corporate sustainability from the inside.

06:30 - Why Circularity Is Moving Backward | The harsh reality of why businesses are failing at circularity.

12:00 - The Green Swans vs. Gray Swans Concept | How radical positive change emerges from crisis.

18:00 - Why Businesses Are Failing to Plan for the Future | The disconnect between leadership and systemic change.

25:00 - The Role of AI in Sustainability | Can technology actually help fix these problems?

31:00 - Should Older Generations Lose Voting Rights? | John’s controversial take on democracy and sustainability.

38:00 - How to Actually Drive Change | Practical steps for businesses, policymakers, and sustainability leaders.

42:30 - Final Thoughts & Call to Action | Why the next wave of sustainability will look completely different.

 

Keywords :

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